Discussion:
How to Deal With Pain the Zen Way
(too old to reply)
blu
2006-10-07 19:24:03 UTC
Permalink
[NOTE: this is not an original writing. It's copied from the book 'Grace
and Grit' by Ken Wilbur]

I have a body, but I am not my body. I can see and feel my body, and what
can be seen and felit is not the true Seer. My body may be tired or
excited, sick or healthy, heavy or light, anxious or calm, but that has
nothing to do with my inwasrd I, the Witness. I have a body, but I am not
my body.

I have desires, but I am not my desires. I can know my desires, and what
can be known is not the true Knower. Desires come and go, floating through
my awareness, but they do not affect my inward I, the Witness. I have
desires but I am not desires.

I have emotions, but I am not my emotions. I can feel and sense my
emotions, and what can be felt and sensed is not the true Feeler. Emotions
pass through me, but they do not affect my inward I, the Witness. I have
emotions, but I am not emotions.

I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts. I can see and know my
thoughts, and what can be known is not the true Knower. Thoughts come to
me and thoughts leave me, but they do not affect my inward I, the Witness.
I have thoughts but I am not my thoughts.

Then affirm as concretely as you can: I am what remains, the pure center
of awareness, the unmoved Witness of all these thoughts, emotions,
feelings and sensations.
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
http://blu05.port5.com/
Tom
2006-10-07 20:05:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by blu
[NOTE: this is not an original writing. It's copied from the book 'Grace
and Grit' by Ken Wilbur]
I have a body, but I am not my body. I can see and feel my body, and what
can be seen and felit is not the true Seer. My body may be tired or
excited, sick or healthy, heavy or light, anxious or calm, but that has
nothing to do with my inwasrd I, the Witness. I have a body, but I am not
my body.
I have desires, but I am not my desires. I can know my desires, and what
can be known is not the true Knower. Desires come and go, floating through
my awareness, but they do not affect my inward I, the Witness. I have
desires but I am not desires.
I have emotions, but I am not my emotions. I can feel and sense my
emotions, and what can be felt and sensed is not the true Feeler. Emotions
pass through me, but they do not affect my inward I, the Witness. I have
emotions, but I am not emotions.
I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts. I can see and know my
thoughts, and what can be known is not the true Knower. Thoughts come to
me and thoughts leave me, but they do not affect my inward I, the Witness.
I have thoughts but I am not my thoughts.
Then affirm as concretely as you can: I am what remains, the pure center
of awareness, the unmoved Witness of all these thoughts, emotions,
feelings and sensations.
My brother-in-law is highly accomplished in yoga and martial arts. He has
used this formula often, even in some challenging situations. Going to the
dentist is one he's tried. He was able to get his tooth drilled and filled
without anasthetic, but he backed off of doing an extraction that way.

Whether you identify with your pain or not, you still feel it. There are
limits to how much we can ignore, although exactly what those limits are may
vary widely from one individual to the next.
blu
2006-10-07 20:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
Post by blu
[NOTE: this is not an original writing. It's copied from the book 'Grace
and Grit' by Ken Wilbur]
I have a body, but I am not my body. I can see and feel my body, and
what can be seen and felit is not the true Seer. My body may be tired or
excited, sick or healthy, heavy or light, anxious or calm, but that has
nothing to do with my inwasrd I, the Witness. I have a body, but I am
not my body.
I have desires, but I am not my desires. I can know my desires, and what
can be known is not the true Knower. Desires come and go, floating
through my awareness, but they do not affect my inward I, the Witness. I
have desires but I am not desires.
I have emotions, but I am not my emotions. I can feel and sense my
emotions, and what can be felt and sensed is not the true Feeler.
Emotions pass through me, but they do not affect my inward I, the
Witness. I have emotions, but I am not emotions.
I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts. I can see and know my
thoughts, and what can be known is not the true Knower. Thoughts come to
me and thoughts leave me, but they do not affect my inward I, the
Witness. I have thoughts but I am not my thoughts.
Then affirm as concretely as you can: I am what remains, the pure center
of awareness, the unmoved Witness of all these thoughts, emotions,
feelings and sensations.
My brother-in-law is highly accomplished in yoga and martial arts. He has
used this formula often, even in some challenging situations. Going to
the dentist is one he's tried. He was able to get his tooth drilled and
filled without anasthetic, but he backed off of doing an extraction that
way.
As you may know, Treya Wilbur had cancer and that's how she dealt with it,
only using the morphine at the very end. This is a spot I hope to be able
to acheive some day.
Post by Tom
Whether you identify with your pain or not, you still feel it. There are
limits to how much we can ignore, although exactly what those limits are
may vary widely from one individual to the next.
Definitely. Nobody believes me when I say I refused the prescription for
my broken wrist bone. But, I did. Been using that mantra/whatever for a
few days now and it *does* work. I feel the pain, but I can detach from
it. It's there, but if I choose to ignore it, it's a non-issue.

Namaste,
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
http://blu05.port5.com/
Steve Leyland
2006-10-08 14:08:40 UTC
Permalink
Hi. This is the meow-send program at usenet. I'm afraid I wasn't able to
deliver any clue to the following address: ***@groundhogs.roXor "blu"
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

: On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 13:05:08 -0700 "Tom" <***@comcast.net>
: exploded onto the scene and screamed incoherantly:
:
::
:: "blu" <***@groundhogs.roXor> wrote in message
:: news:***@utbwltt...
::: [NOTE: this is not an original writing. It's copied from the book
::: 'Grace and Grit' by Ken Wilbur]
:::
::: I have a body, but I am not my body. I can see and feel my body, and
::: what can be seen and felit is not the true Seer. My body may be
::: tired or excited, sick or healthy, heavy or light, anxious or calm,
::: but that has nothing to do with my inwasrd I, the Witness. I have a
::: body, but I am not my body.
:::
::: I have desires, but I am not my desires. I can know my desires, and
::: what can be known is not the true Knower. Desires come and go,
::: floating through my awareness, but they do not affect my inward I,
::: the Witness. I have desires but I am not desires.
:::
::: I have emotions, but I am not my emotions. I can feel and sense my
::: emotions, and what can be felt and sensed is not the true Feeler.
::: Emotions pass through me, but they do not affect my inward I, the
::: Witness. I have emotions, but I am not emotions.
:::
::: I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts. I can see and know my
::: thoughts, and what can be known is not the true Knower. Thoughts
::: come to me and thoughts leave me, but they do not affect my inward
::: I, the Witness. I have thoughts but I am not my thoughts.
:::
::: Then affirm as concretely as you can: I am what remains, the pure
::: center of awareness, the unmoved Witness of all these thoughts,
::: emotions, feelings and sensations.
::
:: My brother-in-law is highly accomplished in yoga and martial arts.
:: He has used this formula often, even in some challenging situations.
:: Going to the dentist is one he's tried. He was able to get his
:: tooth drilled and filled without anasthetic, but he backed off of
:: doing an extraction that way.
:
: As you may know, Treya Wilbur had cancer and that's how she dealt
: with it, only using the morphine at the very end. This is a spot I
: hope to be able to acheive some day.
:
:
:: Whether you identify with your pain or not, you still feel it.
:: There are limits to how much we can ignore, although exactly what
:: those limits are may vary widely from one individual to the next.
:
: Definitely. Nobody believes me when I say I refused the prescription
: for my broken wrist bone. But, I did. Been using that mantra/whatever
: for a few days now and it *does* work. I feel the pain, but I can
: detach from it. It's there, but if I choose to ignore it, it's a
: non-issue.

After breaking every bone in my right leg in a high speed motorcycle
crash 26 years ago, I will agree with this. When I woke up in hospital
and realised they'd been injecting me with opiates, I requested that
they stop that pain relief. I was in plaster from ankles to chest for a
year , then another 6 months before I learned to walk again. Yes it hurt
like fuck back then and it still does, but an intelligent mind
absolutely can learn to ignore it.

:
: Namaste,
--
Steve Leyland
mhm32x16 Smeeter#24 WSD#41
flower: three 6 four 9 five 8 eight 9
em ess en: my 1st name at purgatory dot org
Alcatroll Labs Inc (bongwater maintenance dept)

=^MEOW MEOW ARMY^=

Join the Army. Meet interesting people. Kill them.
======================================================================
"My suggestion is to completely ignore idiots like Leland. They are the
lowest form of pond scum. People like him have tried unsuccessfully in
the past to disrupt the newsgroup. The best medicine is to completely
ignore them. As I'm sure you'll see, they're most intelligent response
is to yell nasty names. Other than that, they have nothing."

JG, netKKKop, alt.sailing.asa
======================================================================
"Warning to all:
Steve Leyland is a trolling twat of the highest order. Killfile the
muppet now and move on. Even the briefest of searches on his past
UseNet posts will reveal the truth. You have been warned. *plonk*"

Bear, netKKKop, uk.rec.motorcycles
======================================================================
"I didn't delete any part of your meaningless, pointless, worthless
post in order to clearly demonstrate that you are the nemesis of
Usenet: the crossposting, non-editing, diagram-creating worthless,
dickless, brainless, gutless, mindless, ball-less, spineless, flaccid,
obese, fish-belly pale, ugly, VD-ridden, moronic, bald, hunch-backed,
flat-footed, odoriferous, obnoxious, fecal-smelling, buck-toothed,
physically handicapped, fungus-infected, HIV positive, mud-packing,
masturbating, whining, simpering, self-important, arrogant, egomaniacal
POS that takes up more bandwidth than a despicable binary-poster, and
for no apparent reason beyond seeing his own defecatory vomitus
slithering down the screen in vile green rivulets."

Admiral Halsey, alt.sailing.asa
======================================================================
"I went to the Garden of Love,
And saw what I never had seen;
A Chapel was built in the midst,
Where I used to play on the green.

And the gates of this Chapel were shut
And "Thou shalt not," writ over the door;
So I turned to the Garden of Love
That so many sweet flowers bore.

And I saw it was filled with graves,
And tombstones where flowers should be;
And priests in black gowns were walking their rounds,
And binding with briars my joys and desires."

William Blake.
======================================================================
"When the Earth has been ravaged and the animals are dying, a tribe of
people from all races, creeds and colours shall put their faith in
deeds, not words, and make the land green again. They shall be known as
Warriors of the Rainbow, protectors of the environment."

Native American prophecy


|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
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_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow
blu
2006-10-08 21:42:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 15:08:40 +0100 "Steve Leyland"
Post by Steve Leyland
Hi. This is the meow-send program at usenet. I'm afraid I wasn't able to
is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
::: [NOTE: this is not an original writing. It's copied from the book
::: 'Grace and Grit' by Ken Wilbur]
::: I have a body, but I am not my body. I can see and feel my body, and
::: what can be seen and felit is not the true Seer. My body may be tired
::: or excited, sick or healthy, heavy or light, anxious or calm, but that
::: has nothing to do with my inwasrd I, the Witness. I have a body, but I
::: am not my body.
::: I have desires, but I am not my desires. I can know my desires, and
::: what can be known is not the true Knower. Desires come and go,
::: floating through my awareness, but they do not affect my inward I, the
::: Witness. I have desires but I am not desires.
::: I have emotions, but I am not my emotions. I can feel and sense my
::: emotions, and what can be felt and sensed is not the true Feeler.
::: Emotions pass through me, but they do not affect my inward I, the
::: Witness. I have emotions, but I am not emotions.
::: I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts. I can see and know my
::: thoughts, and what can be known is not the true Knower. Thoughts come
::: to me and thoughts leave me, but they do not affect my inward I, the
::: Witness. I have thoughts but I am not my thoughts.
::: Then affirm as concretely as you can: I am what remains, the pure
::: center of awareness, the unmoved Witness of all these thoughts,
::: emotions, feelings and sensations.
:: My brother-in-law is highly accomplished in yoga and martial arts. He
:: has used this formula often, even in some challenging situations. Going
:: to the dentist is one he's tried. He was able to get his tooth drilled
:: and filled without anasthetic, but he backed off of doing an extraction
:: that way.
: As you may know, Treya Wilbur had cancer and that's how she dealt with
: it, only using the morphine at the very end. This is a spot I hope to be
: able to acheive some day.
:: Whether you identify with your pain or not, you still feel it. There
:: are limits to how much we can ignore, although exactly what those
:: limits are may vary widely from one individual to the next.
: Definitely. Nobody believes me when I say I refused the prescription for
: my broken wrist bone. But, I did. Been using that mantra/whatever for a
: few days now and it *does* work. I feel the pain, but I can detach from
: it. It's there, but if I choose to ignore it, it's a non-issue.
After breaking every bone in my right leg in a high speed motorcycle crash
26 years ago, I will agree with this. When I woke up in hospital and
realised they'd been injecting me with opiates, I requested that they stop
that pain relief. I was in plaster from ankles to chest for a year , then
another 6 months before I learned to walk again. Yes it hurt like fuck
back then and it still does, but an intelligent mind absolutely can learn
to ignore it.
Hrm.. mine was on the left. Total shatter, compound fracture (where the
bone is out of hte skin) was a real mess. But same scenerio. At the time,
I had no clue, so I did the morphine. If I could go back, it'd be a
totally different story. And, I'd still have veins.

Namaste,
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
http://blu05.port5.com/
Bassos
2006-10-07 20:57:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
My brother-in-law is highly accomplished in yoga and martial arts. He has
used this formula often, even in some challenging situations. Going to
the dentist is one he's tried. He was able to get his tooth drilled and
filled without anasthetic, but he backed off of doing an extraction that
way.
Whether you identify with your pain or not, you still feel it. There are
limits to how much we can ignore, although exactly what those limits are
may vary widely from one individual to the next.
There is the good old way of redirecting focus.
Pushing the nail of the thumb into another finger to redirect attention from
one signal of pain to another (more manageable but of) pain.
I do not think there is an actual body of research concerning this
redirecting pain.
For me it has worked.
I was hit by a taxi once, and both my knee and ankle where 'hurt'. (read
that as sprained, not broken)
When going home i took the tram instead of a taxi, and actually left the
tram one stop before the closest one, coz i had not paid enough. (woe is my
being all nice and such in a state of pain)
So getting meself back home was kind of painful.

The way i did it, had to do with redirecting attention.
Focus on the next move (backwards moving, sitting, with my hands doing the
moving) and also when the going got tough, drilling my nail into my flesh,
so i would not feel my knee and ankle.

This was kinda difficult, but eventually doable.

When recuperating, i stayed at my parents house.
They have a cellar.
One time, they went away, so i was 'home alone' (:P)
I had to get down to the cellar to get my food.
To get down, i grapped the overhanging railing, to get down, but my good
(non-hurt) leg slacked behind.
(cought on the railing of the stairs.)

So, i actually fell about 2 feet with my full weight on my hurt leg.

Suffice to say i collapsed, cos my leg could not hold my weight.

But then, i just became angry because of my foolishness, and applied
pressure on my ankle and knee with my hands.

Both ankle and knee received 'heat' from my hands, and i did not suffer half
as much as i did before i applied said pressure. (actually manageable pain,
instead of full out shouting pain)

Anger does seem to be something that takes the available attention, so not
enough attention is left for them pain signals.
Perhaps some 'healing hands' is involved there aswell, no telling.

What do you think about pain, and it being dependant on attention ?
blu
2006-10-07 21:04:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
My brother-in-law is highly accomplished in yoga and martial arts. He
has used this formula often, even in some challenging situations. Going
to the dentist is one he's tried. He was able to get his tooth drilled
and filled without anasthetic, but he backed off of doing an extraction
that way.
Whether you identify with your pain or not, you still feel it. There
are limits to how much we can ignore, although exactly what those limits
are may vary widely from one individual to the next.
There is the good old way of redirecting focus. Pushing the nail of the
thumb into another finger to redirect attention from one signal of pain to
another (more manageable but of) pain. I do not think there is an actual
body of research concerning this redirecting pain.
For me it has worked.
I was hit by a taxi once, and both my knee and ankle where 'hurt'. (read
that as sprained, not broken)
When going home i took the tram instead of a taxi, and actually left the
tram one stop before the closest one, coz i had not paid enough. (woe is
my being all nice and such in a state of pain) So getting meself back home
was kind of painful.
The way i did it, had to do with redirecting attention. Focus on the next
move (backwards moving, sitting, with my hands doing the moving) and also
when the going got tough, drilling my nail into my flesh, so i would not
feel my knee and ankle.
This was kinda difficult, but eventually doable.
When recuperating, i stayed at my parents house. They have a cellar.
One time, they went away, so i was 'home alone' (:P) I had to get down to
the cellar to get my food. To get down, i grapped the overhanging railing,
to get down, but my good (non-hurt) leg slacked behind.
(cought on the railing of the stairs.)
So, i actually fell about 2 feet with my full weight on my hurt leg.
Suffice to say i collapsed, cos my leg could not hold my weight.
But then, i just became angry because of my foolishness, and applied
pressure on my ankle and knee with my hands.
Both ankle and knee received 'heat' from my hands, and i did not suffer
half as much as i did before i applied said pressure. (actually manageable
pain, instead of full out shouting pain)
Anger does seem to be something that takes the available attention, so not
enough attention is left for them pain signals. Perhaps some 'healing
hands' is involved there aswell, no telling.
What do you think about pain, and it being dependant on attention ?
Wow, good question. In MHO? Pain is an attention whore. It *demands* your
attention and if you try to put your mind elsewhere, it throws a tantrum
like a 2 year old.

Yet, how many of us have ignored the temper tantrums of 2 year olds?
Eventually, when they saw they weren't getting the attention they desired,
they quit and went away.

Pain is the same as that tantrum throwing 2 year old.

It won't go away, totally, but it can be diverted. Like you said, with
causing a different pain.. or with the above technique, which is a
meditation of quite some strength.

Here I am, typing away, with a broken wrist. Using both hands. I am *in*
pain, but *I* am not pain. Therefore, if I choose to let the pain be,
ignore it.. well.. you see the results.

Namaste,
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
http://blu05.port5.com/
Bassos
2006-10-07 21:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by blu
Post by Tom
My brother-in-law is highly accomplished in yoga and martial arts. He
has used this formula often, even in some challenging situations. Going
to the dentist is one he's tried. He was able to get his tooth drilled
and filled without anasthetic, but he backed off of doing an extraction
that way.
Whether you identify with your pain or not, you still feel it. There
are limits to how much we can ignore, although exactly what those limits
are may vary widely from one individual to the next.
There is the good old way of redirecting focus. Pushing the nail of the
thumb into another finger to redirect attention from one signal of pain to
another (more manageable but of) pain. I do not think there is an actual
body of research concerning this redirecting pain.
For me it has worked.
I was hit by a taxi once, and both my knee and ankle where 'hurt'. (read
that as sprained, not broken)
When going home i took the tram instead of a taxi, and actually left the
tram one stop before the closest one, coz i had not paid enough. (woe is
my being all nice and such in a state of pain) So getting meself back home
was kind of painful.
The way i did it, had to do with redirecting attention. Focus on the next
move (backwards moving, sitting, with my hands doing the moving) and also
when the going got tough, drilling my nail into my flesh, so i would not
feel my knee and ankle.
This was kinda difficult, but eventually doable.
When recuperating, i stayed at my parents house. They have a cellar.
One time, they went away, so i was 'home alone' (:P) I had to get down to
the cellar to get my food. To get down, i grapped the overhanging railing,
to get down, but my good (non-hurt) leg slacked behind.
(cought on the railing of the stairs.)
So, i actually fell about 2 feet with my full weight on my hurt leg.
Suffice to say i collapsed, cos my leg could not hold my weight.
But then, i just became angry because of my foolishness, and applied
pressure on my ankle and knee with my hands.
Both ankle and knee received 'heat' from my hands, and i did not suffer
half as much as i did before i applied said pressure. (actually manageable
pain, instead of full out shouting pain)
Anger does seem to be something that takes the available attention, so not
enough attention is left for them pain signals. Perhaps some 'healing
hands' is involved there aswell, no telling.
What do you think about pain, and it being dependant on attention ?
Wow, good question.
Hmm, ok, thanks :)
Post by blu
In MHO?
Humble ? before me ?
"wadda mistaka tomaka"
Post by blu
Pain is an attention whore.
Slap !!!!
Post by blu
It *demands* your attention and if you try to put your mind elsewhere, it
throws a tantrum
like a 2 year old.
Well, gotta disagree here.
2 year olds are far worse than pain.
Post by blu
Yet, how many of us have ignored the temper tantrums of 2 year olds?
Eventually, when they saw they weren't getting the attention they desired,
they quit and went away.
Nah, they find new ways to get attention.
It is that shaping thingy.
Post by blu
Pain is the same as that tantrum throwing 2 year old.
The analogy is ok, but inaccurate, imo.
Post by blu
It won't go away, totally, but it can be diverted. Like you said, with
causing a different pain.. or with the above technique, which is a
meditation of quite some strength.
I think it is something everybody is quite capable of.
Post by blu
Here I am, typing away, with a broken wrist.
Damn.
Post by blu
Using both hands. I am *in* pain, but *I* am not pain.
Agreed, but is there something you want to let us know about that ?
Post by blu
Therefore, if I choose to let the pain be,
ignore it.. well.. you see the results.
Not ignore, i think more accept, but redirect attention to something else.

Btw, the results i see of you having quit trolling am, but instead actually
posting are nice.
blu
2006-10-07 22:54:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Tom
My brother-in-law is highly accomplished in yoga and martial arts. He
has used this formula often, even in some challenging situations.
Going to the dentist is one he's tried. He was able to get his tooth
drilled and filled without anasthetic, but he backed off of doing an
extraction that way.
Whether you identify with your pain or not, you still feel it. There
are limits to how much we can ignore, although exactly what those
limits are may vary widely from one individual to the next.
There is the good old way of redirecting focus. Pushing the nail of the
thumb into another finger to redirect attention from one signal of pain to
another (more manageable but of) pain. I do not think there is an
actual body of research concerning this redirecting pain. For me it has
worked.
I was hit by a taxi once, and both my knee and ankle where 'hurt'.
(read that as sprained, not broken)
When going home i took the tram instead of a taxi, and actually left
the tram one stop before the closest one, coz i had not paid enough.
(woe is my being all nice and such in a state of pain) So getting
meself back home
was kind of painful.
The way i did it, had to do with redirecting attention. Focus on the
next move (backwards moving, sitting, with my hands doing the moving)
and also when the going got tough, drilling my nail into my flesh, so i
would not feel my knee and ankle.
This was kinda difficult, but eventually doable.
When recuperating, i stayed at my parents house. They have a cellar.
One time, they went away, so i was 'home alone' (:P) I had to get down
to the cellar to get my food. To get down, i grapped the overhanging
railing,
to get down, but my good (non-hurt) leg slacked behind. (cought on the
railing of the stairs.)
So, i actually fell about 2 feet with my full weight on my hurt leg.
Suffice to say i collapsed, cos my leg could not hold my weight.
But then, i just became angry because of my foolishness, and applied
pressure on my ankle and knee with my hands.
Both ankle and knee received 'heat' from my hands, and i did not suffer
half as much as i did before i applied said pressure. (actually manageable
pain, instead of full out shouting pain)
Anger does seem to be something that takes the available attention, so not
enough attention is left for them pain signals. Perhaps some 'healing
hands' is involved there aswell, no telling.
What do you think about pain, and it being dependant on attention ?
Wow, good question.
Hmm, ok, thanks :)
Post by blu
In MHO?
Humble ? before me ?
"wadda mistaka tomaka"
Naaa.. I try to be polite.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Pain is an attention whore.
Slap !!!!
O_o
What was that for??
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
It *demands* your attention and if you try to put your mind elsewhere,
it throws a tantrum
like a 2 year old.
Well, gotta disagree here.
2 year olds are far worse than pain.
LOL!! I think that, in most cases, you are right.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Yet, how many of us have ignored the temper tantrums of 2 year olds?
Eventually, when they saw they weren't getting the attention they
desired, they quit and went away.
Nah, they find new ways to get attention. It is that shaping thingy.
Well, pain does that, too, yannow. I've seen it migrate from -say- my
wrist to my elbow. Or to my thumb, which is in no way connected to the
bone in question.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Pain is the same as that tantrum throwing 2 year old.
The analogy is ok, but inaccurate, imo.
Ok, I am not posessed by the ghost of Homer. I asked but he said he was
busy.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
It won't go away, totally, but it can be diverted. Like you said, with
causing a different pain.. or with the above technique, which is a
meditation of quite some strength.
I think it is something everybody is quite capable of.
Everybody is capable, yes. But everybody does not know they are.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Here I am, typing away, with a broken wrist.
Damn.
Post by blu
Using both hands. I am *in* pain, but *I* am not pain.
Agreed, but is there something you want to let us know about that ?
That it's possible to re-route the pain, to put it on hold and to ignore
it to the point of typing long paragraphs out of books, and making
replies, even though there may be typos. (if I don't catch them)

And, if you've noted the xpost, this was for mainly someone who's in a lot
of pain.. and not the kind that can be fixed easily. I try to send them
helpful things, and since this was 'on topic' in alt.magick, I included
that group.

So far, it looks like it was on time. And of help.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Therefore, if I choose to let the pain be, ignore it.. well.. you see
the results.
Not ignore, i think more accept, but redirect attention to something else.
My focus is on these words, not what's happening in that bone. That bone
is gonna take care of itself.. my mind is not paying attention to it.
Post by Bassos
Btw, the results i see of you having quit trolling am, but instead
actually posting are nice.
Ach~ I prefer content. I suck as a troll. (not that I've totally given it
up.. but it's elsewhere and under an assumed name..)

And thank you, by the way. That was a nice comemnt.
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
http://blu05.port5.com/
Bassos
2006-10-08 08:14:17 UTC
Permalink
<le snippage>
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Humble ? before me ?
"wadda mistaka tomaka"
Naaa.. I try to be polite.
Do, or do not do, there is no try !!!!!
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Pain is an attention whore.
Slap !!!!
O_o
What was that for??
For the attention ofcourse.
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Yet, how many of us have ignored the temper tantrums of 2 year olds?
Eventually, when they saw they weren't getting the attention they
desired, they quit and went away.
Nah, they find new ways to get attention. It is that shaping thingy.
Well, pain does that, too, yannow. I've seen it migrate from -say- my
wrist to my elbow. Or to my thumb, which is in no way connected to the
bone in question.
Ya might be mistaken about them body parts not being connected.
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Here I am, typing away, with a broken wrist.
Damn.
Post by blu
Using both hands. I am *in* pain, but *I* am not pain.
Agreed, but is there something you want to let us know about that ?
That it's possible to re-route the pain, to put it on hold and to ignore
it to the point of typing long paragraphs out of books, and making
replies, even though there may be typos. (if I don't catch them)
Well, yes, there is that.
However, there is also the bit about ignoring pain too much and thereby
renewing the damage.
Post by blu
And, if you've noted the xpost, this was for mainly someone who's in a lot
of pain.. and not the kind that can be fixed easily. I try to send them
helpful things, and since this was 'on topic' in alt.magick, I included
that group.
So far, it looks like it was on time. And of help.
Nice.
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Therefore, if I choose to let the pain be, ignore it.. well.. you see
the results.
Not ignore, i think more accept, but redirect attention to something else.
My focus is on these words, not what's happening in that bone. That bone
is gonna take care of itself.. my mind is not paying attention to it.
Somewhat similar :
Best way to make a sprained ankle heal is using it the normal way.
(well after a couple of hours of rest)

Mommy is a nurse, and so i hardly ever seen the inside of an hospital.
Pretty much every non-lethal bit of damage heals itself.
(broken bones being an exception, and perhaps infections)
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Btw, the results i see of you having quit trolling am, but instead
actually posting are nice.
Ach~ I prefer content. I suck as a troll. (not that I've totally given it
up.. but it's elsewhere and under an assumed name..)
And thank you, by the way. That was a nice comemnt.
Np.
Gratz go where gz is due.
blu
2006-10-08 21:40:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bassos
<le snippage>
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Humble ? before me ?
"wadda mistaka tomaka"
Naaa.. I try to be polite.
Do, or do not do, there is no try !!!!!
Well, I once said I was polite to the point of ridiculousness. There's a
line. So, now I try..
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Pain is an attention whore.
Slap !!!!
O_o
What was that for??
For the attention ofcourse.
Slap me again and I'll have to pull some dust outta my coon skin cap...
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Yet, how many of us have ignored the temper tantrums of 2 year olds?
Eventually, when they saw they weren't getting the attention they
desired, they quit and went away.
Nah, they find new ways to get attention. It is that shaping thingy.
Well, pain does that, too, yannow. I've seen it migrate from -say- my
wrist to my elbow. Or to my thumb, which is in no way connected to the
bone in question.
Ya might be mistaken about them body parts not being connected.
Not directly. It's teh bone that sticks up on your wrist. Not directly
connected to the thumb. Nope.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Here I am, typing away, with a broken wrist.
Damn.
Post by blu
Using both hands. I am *in* pain, but *I* am not pain.
Agreed, but is there something you want to let us know about that ?
That it's possible to re-route the pain, to put it on hold and to ignore
it to the point of typing long paragraphs out of books, and making
replies, even though there may be typos. (if I don't catch them)
Well, yes, there is that.
However, there is also the bit about ignoring pain too much and thereby
renewing the damage.
Sir- I am not about to run into a doorknob again, pulled full tilt by a 14
pound puppy. That memory is waaay too fresh to allow it to happen again.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
And, if you've noted the xpost, this was for mainly someone who's in a
lot of pain.. and not the kind that can be fixed easily. I try to send
them helpful things, and since this was 'on topic' in alt.magick, I
included that group.
So far, it looks like it was on time. And of help.
Nice.
I *do* try. Most of the time.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Therefore, if I choose to let the pain be, ignore it.. well.. you see
the results.
Not ignore, i think more accept, but redirect attention to something else.
My focus is on these words, not what's happening in that bone. That bone
is gonna take care of itself.. my mind is not paying attention to it.
Best way to make a sprained ankle heal is using it the normal way. (well
after a couple of hours of rest)
Very true.
Post by Bassos
Mommy is a nurse, and so i hardly ever seen the inside of an hospital.
Pretty much every non-lethal bit of damage heals itself. (broken bones
being an exception, and perhaps infections)
I've seen someone wish a wart away. Sounds insane, but I saw it. Over a
period of about 2 weeks. The thing turned black and peeled off.. never to
return. The mind is more capable of healing and doing things to the body
than most people give it credit for.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Btw, the results i see of you having quit trolling am, but instead
actually posting are nice.
Ach~ I prefer content. I suck as a troll. (not that I've totally given
it up.. but it's elsewhere and under an assumed name..)
And thank you, by the way. That was a nice comemnt.
Np.
Gratz go where gz is due.
< smile >
As I said, I *do* try..

Namaste,
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
http://blu05.port5.com/
Bassos
2006-10-08 22:59:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
<le snippage>
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Humble ? before me ?
"wadda mistaka tomaka"
Naaa.. I try to be polite.
Do, or do not do, there is no try !!!!!
Well, I once said I was polite to the point of ridiculousness. There's a
line. So, now I try..
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Pain is an attention whore.
Slap !!!!
O_o
What was that for??
For the attention ofcourse.
Slap me again and I'll have to pull some dust outta my coon skin cap...
Woot.

/slap
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Yet, how many of us have ignored the temper tantrums of 2 year olds?
Eventually, when they saw they weren't getting the attention they
desired, they quit and went away.
Nah, they find new ways to get attention. It is that shaping thingy.
Well, pain does that, too, yannow. I've seen it migrate from -say- my
wrist to my elbow. Or to my thumb, which is in no way connected to the
bone in question.
Ya might be mistaken about them body parts not being connected.
Not directly. It's teh bone that sticks up on your wrist. Not directly
connected to the thumb. Nope.
Connections run deeper than immediacy.
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Here I am, typing away, with a broken wrist.
Damn.
Post by blu
Using both hands. I am *in* pain, but *I* am not pain.
Agreed, but is there something you want to let us know about that ?
That it's possible to re-route the pain, to put it on hold and to ignore
it to the point of typing long paragraphs out of books, and making
replies, even though there may be typos. (if I don't catch them)
Well, yes, there is that.
However, there is also the bit about ignoring pain too much and thereby
renewing the damage.
Sir- I am not about to run into a doorknob again, pulled full tilt by a 14
pound puppy. That memory is waaay too fresh to allow it to happen again.
And i am not talking about repeating the experience.
I thought it to be obvious that i suggested doing stuff that hurts the
already hurt ligament.
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
And, if you've noted the xpost, this was for mainly someone who's in a
lot of pain.. and not the kind that can be fixed easily. I try to send
them helpful things, and since this was 'on topic' in alt.magick, I
included that group.
So far, it looks like it was on time. And of help.
Nice.
I *do* try. Most of the time.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Therefore, if I choose to let the pain be, ignore it.. well.. you see
the results.
Not ignore, i think more accept, but redirect attention to something else.
My focus is on these words, not what's happening in that bone. That bone
is gonna take care of itself.. my mind is not paying attention to it.
Best way to make a sprained ankle heal is using it the normal way. (well
after a couple of hours of rest)
Very true.
Post by Bassos
Mommy is a nurse, and so i hardly ever seen the inside of an hospital.
Pretty much every non-lethal bit of damage heals itself. (broken bones
being an exception, and perhaps infections)
I've seen someone wish a wart away. Sounds insane, but I saw it. Over a
period of about 2 weeks. The thing turned black and peeled off.. never to
return. The mind is more capable of healing and doing things to the body
than most people give it credit for.
I had a sprained ankle again (yep weak point)
I smoked it away.
(was an mj dude for a while, me living in amsterdam and all)
blu
2006-10-08 23:16:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
<le snippage>
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Humble ? before me ?
"wadda mistaka tomaka"
Naaa.. I try to be polite.
Do, or do not do, there is no try !!!!!
Well, I once said I was polite to the point of ridiculousness. There's a
line. So, now I try..
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Pain is an attention whore.
Slap !!!!
O_o
What was that for??
For the attention ofcourse.
Slap me again and I'll have to pull some dust outta my coon skin cap...
Woot.
/slap
"Try some of this it'll show you where you're at or at least it'll help ya
to feel it.."

/dusts Bassos thoroughly
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Yet, how many of us have ignored the temper tantrums of 2 year olds?
Eventually, when they saw they weren't getting the attention they
desired, they quit and went away.
Nah, they find new ways to get attention. It is that shaping thingy.
Well, pain does that, too, yannow. I've seen it migrate from -say- my
wrist to my elbow. Or to my thumb, which is in no way connected to the
bone in question.
Ya might be mistaken about them body parts not being connected.
Not directly. It's teh bone that sticks up on your wrist. Not directly
connected to the thumb. Nope.
Connections run deeper than immediacy.
Am aware of that. Please do not disrupt my inner ideas of connection. They
seem to be working as of now.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Here I am, typing away, with a broken wrist.
Damn.
Post by blu
Using both hands. I am *in* pain, but *I* am not pain.
Agreed, but is there something you want to let us know about that ?
That it's possible to re-route the pain, to put it on hold and to
ignore it to the point of typing long paragraphs out of books, and
making replies, even though there may be typos. (if I don't catch
them)
Well, yes, there is that.
However, there is also the bit about ignoring pain too much and thereby
renewing the damage.
Sir- I am not about to run into a doorknob again, pulled full tilt by a
14 pound puppy. That memory is waaay too fresh to allow it to happen
again.
And i am not talking about repeating the experience. I thought it to be
obvious that i suggested doing stuff that hurts the already hurt ligament.
Well, ok.. I'm using it, but carefully. I am not picking up drill presses
or fixing flat tires.. nothing that puts undo stress on it. I want it
healed, not operated on with pins and such.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
And, if you've noted the xpost, this was for mainly someone who's in a
lot of pain.. and not the kind that can be fixed easily. I try to send
them helpful things, and since this was 'on topic' in alt.magick, I
included that group.
So far, it looks like it was on time. And of help.
Nice.
I *do* try. Most of the time.
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Post by Bassos
Post by blu
Therefore, if I choose to let the pain be, ignore it.. well.. you
see the results.
Not ignore, i think more accept, but redirect attention to something else.
My focus is on these words, not what's happening in that bone. That
bone is gonna take care of itself.. my mind is not paying attention to
it.
Best way to make a sprained ankle heal is using it the normal way.
(well after a couple of hours of rest)
Very true.
Post by Bassos
Mommy is a nurse, and so i hardly ever seen the inside of an hospital.
Pretty much every non-lethal bit of damage heals itself. (broken bones
being an exception, and perhaps infections)
I've seen someone wish a wart away. Sounds insane, but I saw it. Over a
period of about 2 weeks. The thing turned black and peeled off.. never
to return. The mind is more capable of healing and doing things to the
body than most people give it credit for.
I had a sprained ankle again (yep weak point) I smoked it away.
(was an mj dude for a while, me living in amsterdam and all)
I believe in the healing qualities of weed. MJ.

Also, my ankles are my weak point, too. Not good at ice skating or water
skiing.. I'd fall flat.

My brother Buzzard just came back from Amsterdam a few months ago. He
thoroughly enjoyed himself.. came back totally healed. lol!!
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
http://blu05.port5.com/
weekend CountryStuff
2006-10-07 22:02:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bassos
There is the good old way of redirecting focus.
Pushing the nail of the thumb into another finger to redirect attention
from one signal of pain to another (more manageable but of) pain.
I do not think there is an actual body of research concerning this
redirecting pain.
For me it has worked.
This does work for certain things, pain only can reach one spot in your
brain at a time so you can redirect it for sure.
I have tried it and it will work....for some pain. :)
Bassos
2006-10-07 22:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by weekend CountryStuff
Post by Bassos
There is the good old way of redirecting focus.
Pushing the nail of the thumb into another finger to redirect attention
from one signal of pain to another (more manageable but of) pain.
I do not think there is an actual body of research concerning this
redirecting pain.
For me it has worked.
Interaction for clarity.
Post by weekend CountryStuff
This does work for certain things,
For what kind of things does it work ?
And ofcourse, for what kinds of things does it not work ?
Post by weekend CountryStuff
pain only can reach one spot in your brain at a time so you can redirect
it for sure.
Do you have an idea about what part of said brain pain will go to ?
Post by weekend CountryStuff
I have tried it and it will work....for some pain. :)
For which kinds of pain does it not work ?

And do you have an idea about why it does not work ?
Kaycee
2006-10-08 20:13:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bassos
Post by weekend CountryStuff
pain only can reach one spot in your brain at a time so you can redirect
it for sure.
Do you have an idea about what part of said brain pain will go to ?
Parts of the medulla handle pain signals. They can either faciliate or
inhibit it.


Cheers, KC
Bassos
2006-10-10 09:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kaycee
Post by Bassos
Post by weekend CountryStuff
pain only can reach one spot in your brain at a time so you can redirect
it for sure.
Do you have an idea about what part of said brain pain will go to ?
Parts of the medulla handle pain signals. They can either faciliate or
inhibit it.
You may be limiting your focus.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pain/PN00017

Small quote :" Your brain. When news of your stubbed toe travels up the
spinal cord, it arrives at the thalamus - a sorting and switching station
located deep inside your brain. The thalamus quickly forwards the message
simultaneously to three specialized regions of the brain: the physical
sensation region (somatosensory cortex), the emotional feeling region
(limbic system) and the thinking region (frontal cortex). Your brain
responds to pain by sending messages that moderate the pain in the spinal
cord "
CountryStuff
2006-10-12 15:56:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bassos
Post by weekend CountryStuff
Post by Bassos
There is the good old way of redirecting focus.
Pushing the nail of the thumb into another finger to redirect attention
from one signal of pain to another (more manageable but of) pain.
I do not think there is an actual body of research concerning this
redirecting pain.
For me it has worked.
Interaction for clarity.
Post by weekend CountryStuff
This does work for certain things,
For what kind of things does it work ?
And ofcourse, for what kinds of things does it not work ?
Well it depends on the degree of pain IMO.
Say you kick your toe...there are spots you can pinch to make the pain go to
the spot your pinching. Now I don't have any links or anything, i just
remember it as a kid ...it seemed to help.
I still do it sometimes and it helps a little.
Weird but it can.
Post by Bassos
Post by weekend CountryStuff
pain only can reach one spot in your brain at a time so you can redirect
it for sure.
Do you have an idea about what part of said brain pain will go to ?
Not really just a personal thing I heard about when I was young and have
tried it alot and it semed to help.
Post by Bassos
Post by weekend CountryStuff
I have tried it and it will work....for some pain. :)
For which kinds of pain does it not work ?
Above question sorta of answers this.
Post by Bassos
And do you have an idea about why it does not work ?
I imagine you might not be reaching the correct nerve to change direction.
Just my opinion...try to Google it and see what they say I will do the same.
Tom
2006-10-08 15:53:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bassos
There is the good old way of redirecting focus.
Pushing the nail of the thumb into another finger to redirect attention
from one signal of pain to another (more manageable but of) pain.
I do not think there is an actual body of research concerning this
redirecting pain.
Actually there is a growing body of research, and a theory behind how it
works. It's called the "Gate Control Theory" and it posits that pain
signals must move through certain nerve junctures which have a finite
carrying capacity. A competing stimulus could block some or all of the pain
signal at those junctures.

http://www.spine-health.com/topics/cd/pain/chronic_pain_theories/chronic_pain_theory02.html
Bassos
2006-10-08 16:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom
Post by Bassos
There is the good old way of redirecting focus.
Pushing the nail of the thumb into another finger to redirect attention
from one signal of pain to another (more manageable but of) pain.
I do not think there is an actual body of research concerning this
redirecting pain.
Actually there is a growing body of research, and a theory behind how it
works. It's called the "Gate Control Theory" and it posits that pain
signals must move through certain nerve junctures which have a finite
carrying capacity. A competing stimulus could block some or all of the
pain signal at those junctures.
http://www.spine-health.com/topics/cd/pain/chronic_pain_theories/chronic_pain_theory02.html
Nice article. (though short)

"Although no one yet understands the details of this process or how to
control it "
is kinda sad.

Also this article only adresses signals going to the brain, it does not
touches the flashlight attention theory.
(which is also supposed to explain some weird pain relief effects)

(flashlight attention theory being something like there only being a limited
amount of recources available for attention at a single time. So when
attention is diverted from pain signals, them pain signals can be not
experienced. Attention does not have to be redirected to other bodily
signals, but can also be directed to purely mental events)
curmudgeon
2006-10-08 01:50:53 UTC
Permalink
"That the end of life should be death
may sound sad; yet what other end
can anything have ? "

George Santayana


"There are no enemies in science just anomalies"
blu
2006-10-08 21:47:00 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 19:50:53 -0600 "curmudgeon"
"That the end of life should be death may sound sad; yet what other end
can anything have ? "
George Santayana
I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole life
fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the tortures of
hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse.

Isaac Asimov
"There are no enemies in science just anomalies"
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
http://blu05.port5.com/
amanita
2006-10-08 10:19:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by blu
I can see and feel my body
I would feel better if someone else felt my body.
It needs to be massaged to get the fat to melting.
--
=====@@@@@=====@@@@@=====
Freedom is just another word
for nothing left to lose.
---------------------
http://sheree-dawn.livejournal.com/
blu
2006-10-08 21:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by blu
I can see and feel my body
I would feel better if someone else felt my body. It needs to be massaged
to get the fat to melting.
I jes need the massage.
I'd very much like one.
Might get me to move outta this desk chair and *do* something.
But, prolly not.
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
http://blu05.port5.com/
Sheree Dawn
2006-10-09 01:34:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by blu
I jes need the massage.
I'd very much like one.
Might get me to move outta this desk chair and *do* something.
But, prolly not.
same here.
Wonder if BuZZard does sensual massages????
--
``````````
all things serve the beam
``````````
http://sheree-dawn.livejournal.com/
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
blu
2006-10-09 02:44:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sheree Dawn
Post by blu
I jes need the massage.
I'd very much like one.
Might get me to move outta this desk chair and *do* something. But,
prolly not.
same here.
Wonder if BuZZard does sensual massages????
Dunnow.. I think them vulture claws would get in the way, don't you?
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
http://blu05.port5.com/
Sheree Dawn
2006-10-09 08:42:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by blu
Post by Sheree Dawn
Wonder if BuZZard does sensual massages????
Dunnow.. I think them vulture claws would get in the way, don't you?
I'd be willing to give it a try.
I'll do anything once; my mama taught me good manners.
--
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all things serve the beam
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CountryStuff
2006-10-12 16:00:32 UTC
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Post by blu
Post by blu
I can see and feel my body
I would feel better if someone else felt my body. It needs to be massaged
to get the fat to melting.
I jes need the massage.
I'd very much like one.
Might get me to move outta this desk chair and *do* something.
But, prolly not.
I have been thinking about saving a lil bit of money and get one myself, I
think it would do wonders for me at this time.
That and a hot tub,I need those things.
Post by blu
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blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison
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